Leading US Theologian Denies Mormons are Part of Christian Church
Mormons seeking recognition as a legitimate member of the Christian church is self-contradictory because the religion was founded by declaring it is the only existing true church, stated one of the US' pre-eminent evangelical leaders last Friday.
by Michelle Vu, Christian Today US Correspondent
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2007, 16:53 (BST)
Mormons seeking recognition as a legitimate member of the Christian church is self-contradictory because the religion was founded by declaring it is the only existing true church, stated one of the US' pre-eminent evangelical leaders last Friday.
Dr R Albert Mohler Jr, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, focused in his second blog entry on how, by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' own definition, it cannot be considered part of the orthodox Christian church.
"'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints', as Mormonism is officially known, claims to be the only true church. As stated in the Doctrine and Covenants [1:30], Mormonism is 'the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth'," Mohler wrote.
Mormons believe the church was corrupt after the death of the apostles and became the "Church of the Devil". And Mormons claim that it was not until the 19th century that the Prophet Joseph Smith restored the true church. This "true church" was given the keys to the Kingdom and the authority of the only true priesthood, according to Mormon theology.
"Why would Mormonism now want to be identified as a form of Christianity, when its central historical claim is that the churches commonly understood to be Christian are part of the Church of the Devil?" questioned Mohler.
The prominent Christian theologian has been engaged in an ongoing "blog dialogue" with well-known Mormon science fiction author Orson Scott Card since June 28. The two figures are debating whether Mormons can be considered Christians in a forum sponsored by the website Beliefnet.com.
Defending Mormonism is Card, who in his latest blog questioned Mohler's authority to define who and what is Christian. More specifically, Card contended that the word "Christian" should include anyone that believes Jesus is the only way to salvation rather than in Mohler's argument based on Christian orthodoxy.
In response, the Baptist seminary head said that Beliefnet had specifically assigned him to consider if Mormons were Christians based on traditional Christian orthodoxy. Mohler further added that if Christianity was defined in terms of sociology, the history of religions or other disciplines, then an expert from that field should take part in the debate rather than himself.
"The question could simply refer to common opinion - do people on the street believe that Mormonism is Christianity? But then the matter would be in better hands among the pollsters," Mohler commented.
The evangelical theologian emphasised once again that according to the question as framed theologically by Beliefnet, "the answer is clear and unassailable - Mormonism is not Christianity. When the question is framed this way, Mr Card and I actually agree, as his essay makes clear."
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The comments below are readers' personal opinions and are in no way intended to reflect the editorial opinion of Christian Today.
Added: Thursday, July 12, 2007, 20:15 (BST)
As regards the debate about whether Mormons are Christian, it is probably more accurate to ask where in Christianity Mormons fit. Certainly not in the traditional Christian mold. But if belief in Christ and professing that He is the sole provider of our redemption and that through Him all mankind is saved by grace then surely that fits basic Christian doctrine. It is exactly what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches. But if one has to adhere to the Nicean Creed to be considered Christian then we are not. We reject the NC as a totally human construct and suggest God had nothing to do with it. But we also recognize that through the 1700 or so years between the death of the last apostles and the Restoration of the gospel, traditional Christianity kept Christ alive in the hearts of people and today continues to bring people to a belief in Christ. We do not condem ANY denomination or church. We preach about not becoming worldly, which equates to loving Satan more than God, but to seek God through study, prayer, belief in Christ and following God's commandments to the best of your ability.
JLF, United States
Added: Thursday, July 12, 2007, 18:19 (BST)
I am not an historian, but I am a Mormon and I am speaking for myself. I have always considered myself a Christian, both when I was a Catholic and now that I am a Mormon. I am not asking to be accepted in the Christian community because I know that I am a Christian. And Joseph Smith did not restore the gospel and the church. He restored it with Jesus Christ, not by himself. So we do not have the church of the devil as you want to say, but Jesus gave us back the church as it was in his day by giving Joseph the power and the priesthood to transcribe the Book of Mormon that is another testimony that works hand in hand with the Bible. Before people condemn us they ought to read it through. Did you ever stop to understand why there are so many Catholic converts in our church, me being one. It is not a cult. Catholics are a very good religion and it gave me a good foundation but there were many beliefs I could not continue. What lead me to look for another religion was I could not receive the sacrament if I was divorced. I was not about to ask for an annulment since I had a child. When I was introduced to the missionaries and the teachings, it was the best day of my life. Recently the Pope came out about Catholics have the true religion. That doesn't bother me at all and I don't feel like I have to get out there and argue. You know why? Because in my heart and in my faith my God and I know I am in the true church and I wouldn't change for all the millions in the world. Because the Mormons are growing fast and are a close group of people, we are called names. Maybe it is because of our faith and determination to live a righteous life that we set the example we do - try walking in our shoes and understanding our beliefs not belittling us. I think it is so interesting that so much has come out for the Presidential Election. A religion, if it makes a man worthy and honest in his dealings with his family and society, should make the people proud. Why should that have everyone skirmishing around? What he believes when a person dies should not affect his presidency. It is how he treats people and I can tell you that the majority of Mormons have better principles than the general population and have God as their No. 1 priority. How many people can say that. Families are second. How many can say that?
Terry Smith, St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Added: Thursday, July 12, 2007, 0:55 (BST)
Again misinformation runs amock. Mormons have no intention of becoming like traditional Christians. The basic message of the church is that many plain and simple messages in the bible have been misunderstood, deliberately pared from scripture, and translated incorrectly. The message says interested people can ask God directly whether a specifc interpretation is accurate and that human beings do not need a third party to interpret for them. We also say that the basis for tradional Christian thought, as an outgrowth of the Nicean Creed, is erroneous. That Jesus Christ, (who is Jehovah of the Old Testiment), God the father and the Holy Ghost are all seperate beings and form the God Head and are not some unknowable amalgam. The Book of Mormon was revealed in these latter days as a testament of the truth of the bible, in so far as the bible is translated correctly, and to re-establish the Church as it existed at the time of Christ and to testify that Jesus is the Christ.
JLF, United States
Added: Wednesday, July 11, 2007, 18:10 (BST)
Well, now it seems that the Pope has declared Southern Baptists a non-Christian church. It seems that we are all in need of a little more Christ-like attributes.
Mark, Mesa USA
Added: Tuesday, July 10, 2007, 14:57 (BST)
In your article, you and Dr. Mohler make one large assumption in your arguement that placed doubt into the conclusion. You state that the LDS church is trying to be part of the "orthodox Christian Church." No such organization exists. There are thousands of different Christian sects and denominations in this world, all teaching different doctrines, different philosophies and have different opinions of God, Jesus Christ, practices and doctrines. Even Dr. Mohler's own church, the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary hold to a belief that baptism by immersion is a necessary ordinance for salvation, while other "orthodox" Protestant churches do not. During the 15th and 16th century reformation, protestant churches all received the same labels that the LDS church is receiving now: "blashpemers, heretics, non-Christian, cult." But now, it is the successors of those same reformers that accuse members of the LDS church as non-Christian.
Dr. Mohler asks the question, "Why would Mormonism now want to be identified as a form of Christianity, when its central historical claim is that the churches commonly understood to be Christian are part of the Church of the Devil?” The answer is that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not want to be part of such a church, nor has any leader of the church expressed their desire to be part of the "orthodox Christian Church." Instead, Mormons all over the world profess their devotion the the Savior of the World, Jesus Christ.
"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prohpecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins." Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:26
It does not matter what the "people on the street" think if Mormonism is Christianty, but it does matter that the people understand that members of the church are disciples of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the World, the Messiah and Lord. This is what is taught throughout the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and from the mouths of all church leaders. It is up to the world to seek and find for themselves whether or not it is true.
Todd Tritsch, Henderson, NV, USA
Added: Tuesday, July 10, 2007, 1:54 (BST)
Being an orthodox and educated Latter Day Saint myself, I fundamentally disagree with Dr. Mohler's conclusions about my faith. The inaccuracies are legion.
First--it is apparent that Dr. Mohler is entirely ignorant of the Book of Mormon's claims about Jesus Christ. I encourage anyone to read through it, if only to see that Latter Day Saints accept Jesus as the personal savior who suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross, who rose the third day from the dead, who is the light and life of the world (see 2 Ne. chpt. 2, chpt. 9, chpt 25, MOsiah chpts. 3-5, Alma chpt. 12, 3 Ne. chpts. 11-29 for some of the very basics on the LDS view of Christ).
Secondly, I do not view as my fundamental tenet the claim that all Christianity is of the devil. Ultimately, we will all have to make a choice to be a member of God's kingdom, but Protestantism and Catholicism have too much good in them for me to accept Mohler's assessment of my religion.
Finally, do remember that both Catholics and Protestants accept EXTRA-BIBLICAL creeds crafted long after the epistles and yet they accuse us of adding to the Bible.
Just some thoughts from a believing and informed Latter Day Saint
Russell, Provo, United States
Added: Monday, July 9, 2007, 21:59 (BST)
"Mormons [seek] recognition as a legitimate member of the Christian church " is a deliberate falsification of Latter-day Saint beliefs. Since 1820, when the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ told 14-year old Joseph Smith that "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight" we have never sought to be confused with orthodox creedal Christianity.
Rather, we claim to be the restoration of the authentic, original Church of Jesus Christ, which fell into apostacy when it became the state church of Rome. Hence "of Latter- day Saints."
Mohler knowingly seeks to mislead others into believing that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not Christian. Indeed, we are not his kind of Christian. But we have always been true Christians -- followers of Jesus Christ!
Since its publication in 1830, the Book of Mormon has stated its purpose on its title page, "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL God, manifesting himself unto all nations."
Anyone doubting that Latter-day Saints are Christians should undertake a serious study of "The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ."
You can read it online here:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm
Tracy Hall Jr, Provo Canyon, Utah, USA
Added: Monday, July 9, 2007, 21:51 (BST)
What we have here is, primarily, a failure to communicate. Mr. Mohler is now talking about whether Mormonism fits within what he calls "The Christian Church." Mr. Card is discussing whether or not the adjective Christian applies to Mormonism. Apples, meet oranges.
I suppose the notion of this "The Christian Church" might give folks some warm and fuzzy feelings, but I don't see a way that it can be seen as describing, in any real sense, unity across all of the brands of orthodox Christianity. Have you not seen the cartoon books from Baptists arguing that Catholics aren't Christian (they're on the shelf right next the the cartoon books of Baptists arguing that Mormons are cultists).
Mr. Card is arguing that orthodox Christianity doesn't own the trademark on the term "Christian," and that it should reasonably apply to all who confess Jesus. Jesus didn't say "come unto me, but only if you accept the product of councils that will come to pass centuries after my death, whether you really understand them or not."
I understand the political requirements for these councils at the time they took place. In a post-establishment world, I no longer see the need for applying their definitions in an iron-fisted fashion.
Also, could someone please tell Ms. Vu that it's "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," with a lower-case "d." The Church is not Mormonism, any more than the Roman Catholic Church is Catholicism. Churches are organizations, and -isms are belief-systems. And Mr. Card isn't "defending Mormonism," so much as he's arguing for a currently popular Mormon opinion. From what I can see, Mormonism doesn't actually seem to be under attack here, so defense isn't necessary.
Blain, Ferndale, WA, USA
