CT: Do you think the church is switched on to this issue?
PS: I think the church is largely unaware of what is happening. The Church of England has been silent throughout the whole process, because their hierarchy take a gradualist view of the embryo. Therefore they have said nothing about this Bill. You can compare it with the Joffe Bill a few years ago when they were very outspoken. The Church of England has been completely absent from this Bill.
The only ones involved have been the Catholics and the Catholics have tried very hard but they have been sidelined as though their only objection is to do with embryo research.
CT: So you want Christians to read up on this?
PS: Yes. I think as a church generally we are not that socially aware and don't take our responsibilities on public policy that seriously. I think when you tell people about it they do get concerned and they do pray and will sign petitions and will write to their MPs.
The major problem has been getting the message from the para-church organisations into the pulpit. I think the main issue is that as a rule pastors around the country are ignorant and therefore their churches are not being fed on these kinds of things unless they've got members who are part of para-church organisations that are telling them.
Humanly speaking I think you only had to see the Bill pass 340 - 78 at its second reading and of those 78 only 10 were Labour MPs - and this Bill will be whipped at third reading. I think because of the misinformation it is very unlikely humanly speaking that these provisions will be thrown out and it will be hard to win anything on abortion because of the huge number of pro-abortion MPs in Parliament.
Seven out of 10 women in this country want the upper limit for abortion to come down from 24 weeks to 13 weeks, which is the European average. Out of the Labour MPs that are women, only three are not happy with the current abortion law - Ruth Kelly, Geraldine Smith and Claire Curtis Thomas. I would say they are all extremists when it comes to abortion, they don't want any change in the law that has led to seven million abortions since 1967.
CT: You said it's not going to be humanly defeated.
PS: That's shorthand for 'it's going to take a miracle' really! We're still praying for a miracle. The best scenario would be that they just kick this Bill into the long grass, approaching the end of the parliamentary session, and that we don't come back to it again and that the science moves on and people become a bit more sensible in the mean time.
The only way I could see that happening is if the Brown Government implodes completely and they lose their leader and have a massive defeat in the Crewe by-election and it's only emergency legislation for the remainder of the session.
Certainly at Alive and Kicking we don't feel we are going to get any change in the abortion law until we get a change of Government. That doesn't mean we are party political in any way cos we work very hard with MPs who agree with us on the issues and we are hugely supportive of them. But it just so happens that a far greater proportion of the Government's MPs have been misled into woolly thinking on these issues.
We see it as part of our Christian responsibility to point out to people where they stand and try and get in people at the next election that are going to put in just and fair laws in the statute books.
My cynical, or perhaps realistic view of the future is that we are praying and hoping for a miracle and if there is one that would be wonderful. If this Bill goes through unchanged, and humanly speaking I think that's the most likely outcome, then my prediction would be that with respect to saviour siblings and animal human hybrids it just won't deliver and we will find that out in time. With abortion we might get a little bit more. We might get the upper limit down to 20, although that would mean a lot of pro-choice people abstaining or just not being there, but we won't get a significant change in the abortion law without a new government.
